Alt.Mustardland

WELL! Not sure what to make of the "theme" at "Bowman-land", but how about this:

http://mustardland.proboards.com/post/2709/thread

Note the nice, confident "Our unwanted guest is now banned from making more appearances so that's a result ...". As I said, I've been away for the day, therefore on a local (hotel) broadband connection; I had no trouble logging in, and assumed this confident boast was based simply on the (good) fact that "guest" posting had been disabled, so I sent Angie the following PM which I think you'll agree is perfectly friendly:

Hi Angie,

Congratulations, and best wishes running this place. Believe it or not, I do mean that. However: your statement "... Our unwanted guest is now banned from making more appearances" is a little premature, and a little inaccurate; a more accurate assessment is that I'm not "bumping" the unwelcome thread anymore, for the following reason (quote from another board):

by An Tarbh Dubh » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:00 am
Looks like there's been some sort of response from Proboards, Angie is showing as "admin". And at least one of the two "perfect storm" elements has been closed down (I suspect by Proboards): guest posting is now disabled. I don't know if user registration has been changed to require admin approval, but at least it's an improvement!

Since "guest posting" is now blocked (that's good), you may indeed wish to remove my thread; especially since I closed and locked the door on the referenced site yesterday evening anyway. It's served it's purpose. Had Sue not slammed the door down on everyone the way she did, it would never have even surfaced. But I do recommend you save the link I provided to instructions for downloading your posts and PMs from Sue's; or, if you want the original text, I'll PM it to you. I'm not even asking you to attribute it to me, you're welcome to it.

Best wishes
"An Tarbh Dubh", aka "Ebony Bull"

Now imagine my surprise when I get home, and, when checking to see if there's any response, I am greeted with "You have been banned from this forum" (screen-shot attached):
Oh, I have no problem bypassing this; it's pretty obvious some clever-clogs (and I presume it's someone in Proboards) has put in an "IP address" block on the IP address "Ebony Bull" was guest-posting from (since I never made any attempt to hide it). Clearly not understanding both the limitations and the dangers of "IP address" blocks, and the reason they are NOT recommended! In this case: this particular IP address is about to change (because I'm changing account type), so this "ban" will end up at some random location. If they've been "clever" and banned a RANGE of IP addresses (something Sue was wont to do), then they're effectively saying "anyone with such-and-such a provider is banned". WHAT a great way to start a new forum, eh?

Do feel free to comment (on Bowman-Board) on the forum starting life with ineffective bans which can only cause hurt (it is ineffective; it is SO ineffective that I didn't even KNOW it existed when I PM'd Angie!).

Added the following to my original PM to Angie:

Hi again,

I wrote the above before I got home, and found a ban/block on my (current, and - get this - ABOUT TO CHANGE) home IP address - so perhaps you realise already that it's not very effective! This still doesn't change my original PM to you, I still mean that. However I would suggest that you remove this ridiculous block - "ip blocking" is a real "Sue" trick, and causes more harm than good unless properly managed (for example, I do implement automated "ip address" blocks for certain services, on my own server; a block expires, also automatically, after 4 hours).

Of course, you can start banning my username, proboards global, and so on ... that's a REALLY great way to start a new community.

By the way, your "ban" would prevent 3Wells from even viewing, were she not in hospital: and if some ****-head takes it into his/her head to block the IP address 3Wells IS using, well .... do you realise this will disconnect an entire hospital from you? One which includes at least one other, now active, member of your community in it's catchment area? Clever!

Continuing but slightly strained best wishes
ATD/EB.

I've had another look in the Bowman board. I don't actually like what they are doing to you EB, since you have only been trying to help. So there's that and I'm not entirely sure if it is safe yet to re register, so I'll hold off for a while longer. As for you, GLO I'm equally mystified. There's no rush to fly in anyway, if at all. I can keep up with Grace on Peet's, and I'm still free to lurk anywhere else.

I hope 3 Wells' pain diminishes very rapidly.

There's been a "development" at the Bowman-Board, and not a good one. 3Wells had registered, but I requested that she let me remove the account (since she'd unknowingly used her original, real-email-linked Proboards account), and set it up again with a throw-away ("burner") email, to be used only once the issue of un-curated "guest" posting was resolved. So while visiting her this afternoon, I asked her if she'd like me to re-set up her (new) login on her phone - which she did want.

Guess what?
Is there any explanatory email? Nope ... of course not.

3Wells never posted with this account; she did make (I think) three or four posts with her original registration - at least two of which were in response to very offensive attacks by "Scarlett".

The account I had registered (with a throw-away email, original username "ATD", now showing "Ebony Bull" as of this morning QUITE clearly, and the account from which I PMd Angie), has not been "banned". At least, not yet. ALL I have done is send the two PMs to Angie (quoted elsewhere); I haven't even "bumped" my original thread since "guest" posting was shut down (every "bump", by me posting as a "guest" but NOT in any sort of disguise, was a reminder: this place is not secure). I suspect it hasn't been banned because the name ("ATD") didn't ring any bells, whereas "threewellsofmyown" was recognised - and rather than trying to figure out essential board management features such as dropping, hiding, locking, or removing unwanted threads or posts, Angie's far more concerned with her green candy-stripes and getting "smilies". I know not whether she, or Proboards, banned 3Wells' new account, and care only that it was done - and must be undone. This would be in addition to the quite pointless "IP address" ban: applying an "IP address" ban to an IT professional is less than pointless!

NOW: the serious matter.

Tolerance of this "minority report" style, pre-emptive banning is incompatible with membership here. And it is incompatible with any form of respect or personal friendship. I don't say this lightly; I apologise if anyone takes offence, but I mean this.

Tolerance may be displayed by continued posting and presence on the "Bowman" board, with no loud, clear and unambiguous PUBLIC (I stress, PUBLIC) condemnation of, specifically, the banning of 3Wells. She left Sue's because of (as she so clearly and elegantly put it herself, in the post which was so quickly deleted by Sue) a break-down in trust: in particular, involving two persons, who are not involved with the "Bowman" board and are most unlikely to be. So she was able to look forward to reconnecting with folk she used to converse with on-board, particularly at this quite difficult time.

So please, take one of the following actions, and do so fairly promptly:

If you are not prepared to tolerate this behaviour by those running the "Bowman" board, then:

PUBLICLY condemn the banning of 3Wells on the "Bowman" board - and be prepared to follow this up; OR,
Delete your account on the "Bowman" board - with or without an explanation.

If you ARE prepared to tolerate this behaviour, then:

Delete your account here (or ask me to do so). In this case, I will also ask that you remove any email addresses, phone numbers, postal addresses, or other contacts that you may have for either 3Wells (Jane) or myself (Angus).

Nothing further to add at this time.

OK... I have far too much filling my brain - I'm in "Mid Post" re Help for my MP, now that Parliament is re-instated, and Much more to draw up for FSA, CAB etc. - I'm sure you will understand that since my "Strokes" I get bogged down in getting thoughts and writings in order. (...and that Nice Mrs May is going to help us Oldies)??

I have received another missive this evening.. I have been invited to join Mermaids New thread? I have told her to hold Fire until I clear my invlvement with Angies Thread.

Now to reply to you.. You will see in Peets (New Board http://www.paranormal.org.uk/mustardlan ... 61#2286661)> I am feeling rather Presured that I (and Peets Moderators) are being berated for not explaining why I'm expected to explain why I have NOT perpetuated my membership, which I beleived that I had Cancelled any Proboard Board that I had been transfered to: Indeed, I have:
a) had a message telling me that I was no longer a Member - (But I don't have the actual words (like Banned, or Disallowed or Cancelled). it was on a board I am no longer a member of), and
b) A poster on Peets actually thought that I had left - so she obviously had access to that message sent to me.. HOW?

Nevertheless I Still have access to Angies. OK, I'll accept that Angie is new to messageboarding, and I'll accept that with good intent she may not be au-fait with The rules, that I don't know either. As I am (I think??) no Longer a Member of Bowmans I Condemn any Banning of Members: Please Delete records of

1) my e-mail address or any previous e-mail address,
!!) Any Buisiness or personal Phone numbers of mine,
111) ditto to anybody who has been Banned,

OK: I'm having a lot of trouble putting words together tonight - it's been a hard day. Yes, Certainly I'll ask you to Delete all thus stuff for me. Much thanks.
I know Irishmen are better with Words than I am at present, so If you want to Draft a reply, than let me know.

GLO, I appreciate your problems at the moment. I'll hang fire on removing you from here unless you're very certain that's what you want.

Regarding Proboards ... they don't make it easy. But the main thing to remember is, you have a "proboards" account (using your email address to login), and "belonging" to that (they call it your "global" account), you can have zero to many individual "forum" accounts (using your "board name", with a different board name for each board, and indeed maybe with multiple board names for a single board/forum).

I don't believe you're any more pleased with the outrageous attitude being shown on "Bowmans" than I am, and you've been given quite a lot of totally uncalled for stick yourself. They're really turning out to be a bunch of *********. But there's a few good souls there, who deserve better.

G'night, sleep on things and hopefully you'll get your forms and things in order.

EB.

Since I think that banning of either of you or 3 Wells is unreasonable, I shall not be re registering on Angies. This I understand was Bowman's board until it became Angies. I shall stay on Peet's and here if that's OK. I'm not going to re register just to administer a blast that would get me banned, so I hope you will excuse that action. However, I do think that continued discussion of Angies will not endear you to the other members of this board, so might I suggest that you open a separate thread for that. Only a suggestion.

I'm going to see my daughter tomorrow who is at a meeting in Brum during the day then down here by the Bristol Channel in the evening. Usually she lives 5 hours drive away, and it's 3 hours for both of us to meet half way. My old Volvo 850R is losing coolant. Maybe I've left the air con switched on but it is firmly in the off position. I think it might be one of the hoses, but fear it might be the timing chain which hasn't been changed since before the previous owner bought it in 2012. I must take it for diagnosis but since a check on the expansion tank before every starting out and topping up where necessary is keeping things steady, I've shamefully procrastinated. The temperature is staying steady at optimum. It's just the coolant light and the level in the ET that's a problem.

Grace's op has been postponed for another week. An emergency has arisen and the surgeon only operates on Monday and Tuesday (for the NHS, that pattern looks to me like a flourishing private practice on other days) I didn't want to utter my suspicions in Peets because it might upset people, but here I think it would be understood. I'm only guessing after all.

Rwth,

Point well made; with very low traffic a single thread did tend to be all that was needed but the increase in activity since The Closure is sufficient that a single multi-threaded thread (as it were) is no longer appropriate. I'll admit I was more than a little upset, but I'll hive that post (and related posts) off onto a separate thread. In the morning, it's been a long day.

Some good news, 3Wells is being "sprung" in the morning. Neurologist is pretty certain it's a nasty little thing called "postherpetic neuralgia" (a complication of shingles); very (very) unpleasant and debilitating but otherwise not sinister - and can be managed perfectly well at home.

I saw about Grace, and popped a wee note for her on her thread. She's been to "the hovel", on one of "DIS-Grace"'s last outings before DIS-integration (I presume you know what I'm on about there).

OK, I've "split" posts on (or mostly on) the subject of the Bowman Board into their own thread (it's nice to have PROPER "moderation" tools, sadly lacking in Proboards).

Please note, I'm not suggesting that it's a choice of "here" or "there"; there's quite a few "over there" who are perfectly decent folk, whom I am sure some of you here would like to be able to chat with and stay in touch with - I know 3Wells would. Whatever Angie and co do to, or think, about me, is for me to deal with, and although I'll report significant occurrences, I'll broadly try to stay within the spirit of the rules I prepared for here (which include "no bashing": that isn't supposed to mean it's forbidden to say anything "bad" about anything or anyone, it's supposed to mean doing so without any evidence. I think).

I am suggesting that "silently" accepting banning 3Wells, and just carrying on posting "over there" as if nothing untoward had happened is (in my view) unacceptable.

I'm going "over there" to check on overnight development, then probably, I (as ATD/Ebony Bull) will be posting - actually, re-posting - my explanation of how to retrieve your own posts and PMs from Sue's. And then, also as ATD/Ebony Bull, I'll post an "apology for absence of 3Wells" on LP's "new cellar" thread, as I think that will be the most appropriate place. And let's see what the response is. It is genuinely possible that Angie doesn't KNOW 'threewells" is banned, and her "help" at PB did it - this wouldn't surprise me, it would just be par-for-the-course cack-handed PB intervention (there's a story about that, from Sues, but that's for another day).

Right, posts made, and screen-shots taken. Sad to say, I don't see anything questioning from a couple of specific posters, unless the posts were made, and then "vanished" Sue-style? It's the PUBLIC display of disdain that is so hurtful.

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

Ah .. A second thread explains why I was posting a reply to Rwth, that I hadn't seen - because it was here..
No, that doesn't make sense - I'll take some pills and have a "Lay down".

MAATTRRONNNNNN....

I'm not allowed to access the Bull, As a 'guest' I'm not surprised, but a little surprised that I'm allowed to lurk in the Bull Upstairs and the Village Hall. Curiouser and curiouser. I saw this morning that Brian has begun posting there. He'll be back. OW is still posting in her usual gnomic fashion. I don't propose to worry about it and I'm not going to re-register.

Rwth of Cornovii wrote:I'm not allowed to access the Bull, As a 'guest' I'm not surprised, but a little surprised that I'm allowed to lurk in the Bull Upstairs and the Village Hall. Curiouser and curiouser. I saw this morning that Brian has begun posting there. He'll be back. OW is still posting in her usual gnomic fashion. I don't propose to worry about it and I'm not going to re-register.

This is getting tiresome, and totally ridiculous. I now get an IP address ban from the VPN address I was using - and this is just dumb, I restart the VPN and it's changed. But my "ATD" account (rather clearly named "Ebony Bull") has now been banned. The post I made about "retrieving data from Sues" is still there, but my post saying

Ebony Bull said:
Apologies from 3Wells; she'd kinda like to join in here but is being presented with an "ACCOUNT BANNED" screen when I tried to log her in on her phone yesterday evening while visiting her.

Hoping this is just a PB issue and will be sorted real soon.

EB.

has been deleted. The very next post is a reply from you, LP: and it quotes my post. There's another reply to my post further down.

WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON? This is RIDICULOUS! Rwth, you're correct - "The Bull" is now "members only" .... so if you don't become a member, you can't even "lurk". Yes, I have some "spare" registrations so I can get in to see this.

I will shortly be reporting this board to Proboards, it amounts to being abusive (to 3Wells, if not to me).

I'm close to quitting all forums, ATD. Increasingly they're not worth the candle. My friends, who haven't already given up on them are now spread far and wide, like some 21st Century diaspora. If I can no longer enjoy a laugh and a joke with them, which is all I've ever used forums for. There's no point in carrying on.

Just off to walk my dog. When I come home, I'm leaving the computer off and going to watch a film.

Will.

Sorry I cant get involved now, but I did see wories on the Bowman Board (General: Board: Help), which you will understand better than me.. BUT, There are also some concerns in Facebook Mustardland. (You'll recgnise my "Real Life name there).

Not got time to get Diverted now: I'll leave you two to sort it out. (I'm helpful like that).

GLO, take care, hoping you have a good and restful night. Do things you're comfortable with - and don't do things you're not.

I took a look in FB, and added the following:

They're not starting well. They're quite happy to have a post from me explaining how to recover their posts and messages from the "dead" place, but passing apologies from 3Wells for not being present on a thread replacing the one she originally created in Sues due to being banned and expressing the hope this was just a "Proboards" glitch is too "hot" and gets deleted! Not to worry, you can still see the post in full where it's been quoted in replies. The banning, and vanishment of posts, is beginning to make the "dead" place at it's very worst look totally rational! And hey, it's not even their board!

Given the mix of people in the FB ML, goodness only knows what sort of reaction that will get!

The same problems as with Sues. A plaque on all their houses!

I am really finding (all) the boards increasingly difficult to deal with. Originally, I joined to 'talk to' people with a similar interest; enjoyment of the radio soap opera 'The Archers'. The fact that within the old BBC boards there were a range of threads covering a broad spread of discussion subjects was a bonus.

Sadly, I soon discovered that many of the threads were simply vehicles for a bunch of weird creeps who used the anonymity of a their board name to spread their objectionable and way out ideas on religion and politics. Not only that but, these 'trolls' also hid behind their board persona to insult and malign posters like me who held different views. As such, I gradually moved away from such threads and focussed, almost entirely on the 'Early' thread.

I enjoyed the Early thread. The subject matter varied from day to day. Some of it may have seemed trivial but, it was fun. In fact, it was a pleasure to join the thread. I made friends, many of whom I've met when attending 'meets'.

When the BBC closed their boards, I had few doubts about joining 'Sue's' boards. The posters that I'd got to know on the BBC boards were there. It was a natural progression for me.

I wasn't posting when the disagreement about last year's referendum blew up. Politics had only ever been a peripheral topic on the 'Early' thread. Whilst I consider myself a 'political animal',my experiences in my early days of posting taught me that the boards were not an appropriate place to discuss the topic. However, I gather that in very short order it became a big deal. Things were written and, posters were banned. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of that time. I tried not to take sides whilst remaining as supportive as I could be to those friends who had been banned.

I ought to say at this point that I have always found that banning posters, even for a short time is a rather blunt instrument. In my view it was used indiscriminately. Some posters were banned for misdemeanours that I saw as mild compared to what other posters seemed to be getting away with. When, one poster was banned for apparently 'giving advice' that, in my view was well intentioned, it struck me that there was an inherent unfairness in banning posters. Others deserved it but, their 'faces fitted'.

After the events of last June, I stuck with the 'Smee Sue' thread. Sadly, many good friends had decamped to 'Peet's' and, I tried to remain in touch with them there. I am no great fan of 'Peet's'. I often post using my phone and, I find the layout and font size difficult. In truth I find it a bit bit clunky too.

As I said, I also stuck with Sue's. It was a poor thread then. So many posters had turned their backs that the Early thread was running at about half the posts it had run at prior to the June schism. There were a lot of posts commenting on this but, as I pointed out, we weren't going to attract the old posters back, let alone pull in new ones, if the thread was a general misery fest.

Gradually , posters were unbanned and returned to Sue's. However, it became an increasingly depressing thread. Much of the lightness had gone. Yes, some posters had genuine problems in their lives, LynnieP and Lulu to name but two. However, several posters seem to have maintained the general feeling of gloom and, from what I can see for no real reason. Early threads regularly opened with several posters complaining of lack of sleep. They never expanded on that, just letting it hang there, casting a pall over the day.

I've had a couple of breaks from posting simply because it was so depressing. I recently joined here and, have this week joined the Alt Mustardland boards. That said the latter seems to be carrying on where Su's left off.

At present, I'm uncertain whether I want to continue posting at all. The only thing preventing that is the friends I have met through posting. I don't pretend to understand the pseudo politics currently being played out at present. What I want is to get back to the simple pleasure of posting, the trivia, the minutiae of peoples' lives, the fun.

Sorry to use a soap box and, such a big one.

Brian, don't apologise. It's a pretty good outline of the history - and from a perspective quite different to mine (this is a good thing - multiple perspectives generally is). I would mostly agree with you about the use of "banning" in Sue's; without going into a lot of unnecessary details, I had developed a number of tools to help deal with "outbursts" short of suspensions, and most importantly we had a plan to migrate lock stock and barrel to a board powered by software with proper moderation tools such as pre-mod ("quarantine" was a very poor substitute - and totally ineffective on most mobile platforms anyway). That's actually the origins of this board. There was consensus in favour among the then mods, but it didn't happen for reasons I'm not going to go into. That's why I resigned as a mod, but hardly (as someone in "Greenland" said) "in a snit": I tried to make sure no-one would notice (the mod account didn't become a "deleted user", for example), and I stayed in contact with "the gang", providing (acknowledged) help and advise of a more technical nature when requested. And left careful documentation on how to use the tools and procedures I'd developed - which I think were never subsequently used (just as an example: I developed and documented a procedure to "block" specific users from using the "shoutbox" without impacting them in any other way, following some truly foul outbursts using that facility).

I'm not going to go into any more details of the events of last summer (really, the "beginning of the end"); I made details available, for a time, and have now closed that door. Yes, these details were "my side"; I would have welcomed comment from others involved but I am virtually certain that (with one or two *possible* exceptions) this will never be forthcoming. Of course, there's been plenty of speculation (and more than a few "I REALLY know .....") from people who were either not involved at all, or who most certainly do not have access to most of the facts.

Following Sue slamming the shutters down, there was indeed an opportunity to "start afresh". But things haven't started well. I find it rather ironic that some specific details I provided have been taken up and quoted as "facts", whereas apparently everything I said was "horse manure". Also, the specific people I identify as protagonists are not present here, or at "Greenland", and almost certainly never will be, the "Greenlanders" will certainly not welcome them. As a victim of these peoples' vindictiveness, 3Wells (and to a much lesser extent, I) should be welcome - and would be, by many, if they hadn't started down the banning and clumsy "vanishing of posts" route.

I'll end MY soap-boxing by saying, the "Recovering your posts from Sue's" post has itself now been "vanished", this does show just how concerned the "new management" really is for their members' interests. Do they not realise Sue is quite capable of ditching the entire forum, at any time, thus making recovery of posts and PMs totally impossible?

I intend to "report" the forum to Proboards for "abuse". That's not really the problem; the problem seems to be that Proboards themselves are violating their own terms of service (see "https://www.proboards.com/tos", in particular sections 9 and 10) - and are imposing bans at the request of someone who *isn't even the owner of the forum*.